MR Round Table: Bros Being Basic
Leandra Medine: Today we’re roundtabling an Instagram account called BrosBeingBasic, which I suppose is essentially a play on the concept of girls — or — “bitches,” being basic. The reason I wanted to round table the account is because Amelia and I had a conversation earlier about her covering the account on MR. I said I’d only feel comfortable doing that if we addressed and identified this sort of double standard, where it’s funny when a guy does “it,” but desperate/weird/uncomfortable when a girl does.
Amelia Diamond: We also talked about the question of can bros be “basic”? What I kept coming back to is, for some reason, that it’s not as funny to qualify bros as being basic. Each time I’ve tried to start and write a post about The Basic Bro, I’ve stopped because while I guess there are basic bros, it’s just not that funny. Then you asked me why.
LM: Right, and to completely stereotype, I think that a lot of that is because men are much less apologetic about who they are and what they do and what they decide is funny. Whereas women consistently feel the need to, number one, apologize for themselves and number two, assume they need to fix something.
Charlotte Fassler: I have a question about the Instagram account. Do we know if it was made by men or women? I assume it’s run by guys but…
AD: I think it’s guys, from what I’ve seen. I know that guys submit these pictures with the captions and hashtags and then tag @BrosBeingBasic. And then I think the account finds them and posts them.
CF: I ask because it would be so easy for a girl to make a parody account of bros and their basic “isms.” Like, “We’re at a beer garden,” or “We’re watching football,” or whateve the characteristic stereotypes are of what constitutes a guy being basic. But this feels more like a direct parody of girls.
AD: Right, it’s still guys making fun of basic girls.
CF: It’s guys making fun of girls rather than them portraying the stereotypes indicative of their own “basic-ness.”
Esther Levy: I agree. The captions are very tongue-in-cheek. Like in this one photo of a “bro” lying on the beach it says, “Taking a moment to send #warmvibes from down under to all my loves in cold weather right now #humblebrag.” It’s acknowledging that humble brag. It’s a parody of what a girl might do rather than a guy being really genuine about lounging on a beach and wanting to send #warmvibes. It’s more “guys being satirical” than “bros being basic.”
I think aside from the actually Instagram account, it seems like maybe guys don’t care as much as women do? Or maybe they’re just not as sensitive?
CF: I guess it makes me think about the fact that you could essentially assign the term “basic” to any sort of subculture–
AD: Or it’s more mass culture. It’s not even subculture.
CF: Yeah, to any sort of mass cultural stereotype. It’s sort of like the commercialized stereotype of the basic hipster as someone who wears a lot of Urban Outfitters, owns a Crosely record player and goes to a lot of shows. At this point, when you start to expand the term “basic” as it’s been appropriated, especially via social media, it loses meaning.
AD: I can’t get over the concept of being “basic.” I know you’re saying that basic can sort of accompany a variety of basics, but I would argue that being basic, first and foremost, categorizes a specific type just as much as hipster or emo or punk. I almost see basic as I would a high school lunch table.
EL: So it is kind of a subculture.
AD: I guess it is a subculture. It’s a subculture of mass things though.
LM: It’s a character type. It’s literally a list of proclivities that probably a lot of women have in common, that was then compartmentalized and given a name. But because of its name, it’s been frustratingly mocked to the extent that girls who enjoy getting manicures are ridiculed for it and feel “simple” or “stupid.”
EL: Do you think that because guys don’t necessarily feel as much of a need to categorize themselves into specific groups like, “hipster” or “athlete,” that the term “basic bro” doesn’t mean as much to them?
AD: I’ve been asking my guy friends, “Who is the basic bro?” And I saw two interesting things: One was that back when I asked girls define the “basic bitch,” they immediately described someone else. They’d be like, “Oh, well she’s someone who…” Whereas almost every time I asked a guy to describe the basic bro, they almost all began by saying, “OK. WE like…” They immediately associated themselves with the basic bro, which is interesting and correlates to my second point. My friend, we can call him Monty — he’s made previous appearances on MR — has said that what’s interesting is that guys are proud to be associated with the word “bro.” It means that you’re in. Or you inherently are whatever encompasses this 21st century, kind of frat culture masculine male.
It connotes this sense of the “guys guy” who can get along with everyone. So Monty — who started out describing himself at first — said, “Well you know, we wear boat shoes, khakis…” And I didn’t think that the basic bro is defined so much by how they dress. I told him that. So, he thought about “basic bro” in direct comparison to “basic girl” and labeled it, “Diet Bro,” which I thought was the most genius concept ever.
And then there are these guys — Diet Bros — kind of on the outside who see what this “bro culture” is and want to be a part of it.
So group Diet takes on this persona of, “I’m going to buy the frat tank and the gingham button down shirt.” They adopt those things that place them within bro culture, whereas with the “basic bitch,” girls try to put the term on other women instead of claiming it for themselves. But I also think girls are now able to make fun of themselves with this — we all hashtag #blessed ironically. I think everyone is in on the joke.
CF: I guess the fundamental difference is that yes, “bro” is derived from the fraternity brotherhood whereas, when it’s attributed to a girl it’s accompanied by the word “bitch.” So the general connotation with that is problematic in the way that both are perceived.
We’re not saying, “basic sorority girl.” It’s just interesting that with guys, bro is something they already associate with…whereas sorority girls — well, actually girls in sororities are proud of being in them, too…
AD: You can say it Charlotte!
CF: I was in one. But I think that there are two distinctly different cultures surrounding them, and that the male culture of being a bro and that sense of camaraderie, a lot of it stems from partying and drinking and things that can be perceived on — for lack of a better word — this basic level of cool.
LM: Who has decided that those things are to be perceived as cool is the question. It’s not really a matter of the actual activities but the stereotypes that we assign to them.
AD: Well that’s what our basic post was like. When I “acted basic” for a week, it was fucking awesome.
EL: Well maybe it’s just like what you said, that guys embrace being part of a larger group and a part of what mass culture is dictating, and women perhaps sometimes scorn that.
CF: Right, we pride ourselves on being more individualistic.
LM: Men might just seem more unapologetic about their existence, whereas women are literally always apologizing. I was working out this morning and every time I had to break my plank I apologized for it. Why was I apologizing for breaking my plank? I’m pretty sure when Abie (my husband), whose session was an hour before mine, broke his plank, he was like, Alright, I was up for a minute! So, good on me!
AD: I feel like in talking to my friend Monty, I realized that the whole thing about being basic is trying to be part of this “popular” community. It’s the whole not thinking you’re there yet thing. It’s trying too hard. Originally, I think that before it started getting made fun of, the girls that were posting about their pumpkin spice lattes and their morning runs and selfies, I think they were doing this because they saw others doing it and were like, “Well, that’s what we do then, right?” If everyone has the “whatever” bag then I’m going to have the “whatever” bag. It’s this high school mentality.
Christina Couri: Yeah, and back to Leandra’s point, do you think it really is a sexist issue? Maybe it’s just alliteration. Maybe it just sounds better to say basic bitch and basic bros than “basic sis.” Maybe we’re reading too much into it and it’s simply that the double b sounds better.
LM: Well, I think we always read too much into everything that’s like, what we exist for — specifically as writers and at Man Repeller. But I think that ultimately, my question or my concern or perhaps my difficulty, is that this Instagram account has been up for a week, has only 42 pictures on it, and has already garnered 127k followers, based on the notion that it is parodying women who are self-conscious!
AD: I know. But don’t you think its funny? Like when I did that “perfect” Instagram account a while ago, wasn’t I doing the same exact thing?
LM: Right well all of the projects — or the journeys — that you’ve embarked on, like the Basic Project and that Instagram account, Standing up to Pinterest, those are all different genuses — genuses? genii? — of basic-ness right?
CF: I guess I just don’t find it so funny because I think it could be done way better.
AD: You don’t think it’s funny that on November 26th, a guy got a party nail of Santa on his big toe?
LM: Okay, I figured out what my problem is! There is such a thing as the basic bro. Bros are basic. This account is not bros being basic, this account is bros making fun of girls.
CF: Yeah! That’s what I said, and that’s my issue with it too. It would be easy to have made an actual bros being basic account, like guys going to beer gardens and wearing plastic Ray-Bans.
AD: Basic bros do love beer gardens!
LM: Just scroll down who Amelia is following and I’m pretty sure that 80% of those guys have basic Instagram accounts.
AD: What did you say?
LM: I said, just scroll down your Instagram following list.
AD: Oh… you mean my friends?
LM: Yeah! I didn’t want to call them your friends…
AD: Here’s what’s interesting, I don’t think — and again, maybe this is what Leandra was talking about earlier today when she said you don’t want someone else making fun of your thing — but I wouldn’t call my guy friends basic bros. I have a really distinct type of guy in my mind who I think is a basic bro.
LM: Can you crystalize it for us?
AD: Yeah, I just don’t want to offend anyone online. But I think it’s a guy who tries to be a bro. It’s a guy who–
CC: Maybe your definition of a bro is a WASPy bro or a mama’s boy…
AD: My definition of a bro…. I wish I could draw him for you. He lives in the East Village, he goes to — I’m trying to think of a bad East Village bar. And he wears like bad shirts because someone once said they were nice, and square toed shoes. He’s a little bit tacky…
EL: Board shorts
AD: He wears board shorts, and cargo shorts…
EL: And sandals in the city…
AD: Yeah. My friend I keep mentioning said that the basic bro would have those sandals that open a bottle on the sole of his flip-flops. That, to me, is a basic bro. But I’m sure that some people also categorize basic bros as the people that I hang out with, like loafers and blazers, etc. I think a while ago Jezebel did a map of the basic bro depending on region. So there was like, the New England basic bro, the Tri-State area basic bro, etc. But to me, and in talking to my friend, a “true basic bro” is a guy who puts on the persona of a bro, whatever the fuck that is. He is not innately bro if that makes sense. It’s sort of like for me, when I first started thinking about basic girls, it seemed like people who wanted to portray popularity in terms of how we knew it from a high school or college standpoint. To portray that you’re in.
CF: You peaked in high school.
AD: Yeah, maybe you did peak in high school. It’s trying to portray that you’re in, and you want everyone to know that you are a part of it. To me, that’s what being basic is. Going forward, if I were to describe “being basic” to someone, I wouldn’t say it’s to actually be the definition of basic. Like if I were to (negatively) say, “Oh my god that girl is basic,” to me it would mean “trying too hard.”
CF: My question is, do we feel like bros can’t completely be basic the same way that girls can? Or not the same way, but do we think it works to assign them basic-ness?
LM: I actually think that to ask if they can be basic the same way is a valuable question. Because there are basic females and there are basic males, it’s just a matter of how those titles are not distributed and not necessarily accepted, but how they are, I guess, perceived.
AD: Well when you and I were talking about it, you said something funny like — I might get this wrong — but that there are more easily identifiable qualifiers for a basic girl. It might have been that College Humor video that set it in stone.
CC: That could be, but even so, I don’t have a well defined image of a basic guy. I think of funny stereotypes of guys but I don’t…
AD: What do you think of? For me the gym would be one.
CF: The gym, yeah.
CC: It’s not necessarily a basic bro, it’s just more funny stereotypes of a man. For example, a man with cats or a tortured musician to name a few.
LM: Right, and somehow those things become cooler! The qualifier, the cat, becomes cool. It’s like when I’m at Soul Cycle class with a lot of men, I think to myself, “This must be a good teacher.” And that’s a frustrating experience unilaterally, right? Because I’m supposed to be on the opposite side of the spectrum, and so self-aware and cognizant of my thoughts and the way I want women to be perceived and treated. So why is it that I’m falling victim to these —
AD: These stereotypes that you don’t even mean to be.
LM: Yeah, or–
AD: What are you thinking about when you’re in class and there are a lot of men, are you thinking, Oh, this must be a harder class?
LM: Well in Soul Cycle, yeah. I’m thinking, this must be a “no bullshit” class. Or it’s like if you see a man walking a cat — cats don’t really get walked, huh?
AD: Well what if you saw a man walking a cat? What the hell would you think? That’s a cool cat!
CF: There’s a guy with a cat on his head that runs around.
ALL: Oh yeah!
LM: When I see a guy getting a pedicure I’m like, Good for you! Good on you, I’m happy for you. Whereas when I see women getting pedicures — and just repainting really clean nails — I think to myself: high maintenance, and that’s a terrible thing to say! Pedicures are a wonderful and sometimes medicative experience!
AD: If a guy Instagrammed a photo of himself getting a pedicure you’d think it was hilarious. If a girl did that you’d be like —
LM: No.
AD: Like, Oh cool did you get a blowout too?
LM: But the difference is that when a man instagrams a picture of himself bench-pressing 180 lbs you’re also like, That’s so lame – and if a woman does, you’re still like, That’s so lame!
CF: The gym is where they sort of join forces.
LM: But the point is that it’s not really a matter of the gym! It’s a matter of the fact that society is harder on women. It’s also like, if as a woman, you take a picture of yourself with a bottle of Macallan in your hand — because Scotch is stereotypically a predominantly male drink — you don’t look cool, you look like you have a drinking problem. Or like you’re trying really hard to be something that you’re not. Where’s the white wine spritzer?
EL: It comes down to validation. That’s why people get offended, because you’re calling them out on their need to be validated about the fact that they drank rosé on a Sunday. It’s like congrats, we all drank rosé that day.
LM: Right and that presents the question —
EL: And sometimes I want to upload a picture of my Rose!
LM: Because it looks really beautiful!
AD: That’s why I have a fake account!
CF: So does the fundamental difference here boil down to the way it’s perceived via social media?
LM: I think that the fundamental difference boils down to the perpetuation of these concepts because of Instagram. I don’t necessarily know that these classifiers would otherwise exist.
AD: Whenever I post an earnest picture or a picture with a very ernest caption, I get shat on by all of my friends. Then I’m embarrassed too!
LM: But that’s also by virtue of your personality. You’re a silly person so it is funny. But even this morning, I found this photo of me, Claire and Naseeba somewhere on the Internet and I thought, “Oh that’s a really good picture we all look cute — specifically me — I think I’ll post it tomorrow! I’m not going to call it a TBT because then people will know exactly why I’m calling it a TBT. So I’m just going to say, ‘these are my only two blonde friends’.” I’m guilty of all the things too. I just also don’t care.
CF: Yeah, I think that girls always try to find these qualifiers to post pictures of themselves that they want to post. Or they try and find a way to ironically undermine it rather than being honest and admitting, “Damn! I look good in this picture so I’m going to post it!” It’s sort of finding the way to not be annoying on social media, because there are all of these stereotypes of annoyance. Or if you Instagram a photo of your rosé in the sunset, you do so with 85 hashtags in order to turn it into a joke to show that you’re self-aware. I think it all boils down to these weird insecurities. I guess it’s like what Esther was talking about — validation.
AD: And to tie in what everyone has said and to touch on that, if it does boil down to validation, and there is this embarrassment tethered to it, I don’t think that most guys feel or have that sense of self-awareness and embarrassment. I don’t think they would question whether or not a post was lame. Whereas I’ve definitely texted (probably) all of you at some point asking, “Can I post this or is that so embarrassing?” I can’t see any guy asking their bro, “Yo, can I post this?”
CF: On the flip side, guys can be so lame and embarrassing on Instagram.
AD: But they don’t care.
LM: I think that every guy who is active on Instagram is basic to a degree.
EL: Active as in —
LM: Frequently uploading pictures.
AD: Maybe Instagram makes all of us basic.
LM: Maybe the question isn’t who of us are basic, because we’re all basic. It’s just a question of how far we take it —
AD: With the joke?
LM: Or how pronounced we make it. Maybe basicness is a human condition.
EL: Maybe we should take back the word “basic.”
AD: I feel enlightened by my new definition of it and refuse to let it go. The “diet bro” or “diet girl.” It’s this adult journey to being in the “in” crowd.
CC: I thought you meant — because actually certain diets, like gluten-free or vegan have become sort of basic — I thought that’s what you meant.
CC: That’s interesting though, that diets have become so basic.
AD: Juice cleansing is basic.
EL: Mylks with a Y are basic.
CC: The Fat Jewish just posted a picture of this Gluten-Free Singles site.
CF: That came up as an ad on my Facebook a really long time ago! But yeah, I feel like maybe Instagram has flatlined us and created these waves for this condition to exist in an obvious way of which we’re all aware.
AD: Right. And I think that that’s why it’s funny and why it won’t die, because we’re all present and privy to the joke, thanks to Instagram and Twitter.
CF: We’re all being confronted by each other’s basicness.
AD: We’re all in on the joke.
LM: So basicness is actually vanity — we’re being confronted with our own vanity and we’re too deep in our narcissism to call it that so we had to assign a different term to it.
CF: I honestly do think that if we weren’t so aware of what everyone else was doing, we’d think less about our own actions. It would just be stuff that we do, as opposed to “Omg, I’m so basic, I’m seeing ‘The Hunger Game’ at midnight.” You wouldn’t think of it as something you need to apologize for.
LM: So, @BrosBeingBasic, funny or bad?
AD: I think it’s funny.
EL: It makes me laugh, but it’s going to die out in 5 minutes.
CF: I’m already done, it’s past its joke and I wouldn’t follow it.
LM: I think it’s past its joke too.
CC: I wouldn’t follow it but I still find it funny.
CF: I think it’s not well done at all!
CC: Charlotte thinks it’s not artistic enough.
LM: I just get really frustrated by low common denominator quips. They bother me. It’s like all this candy and so few vegetables and there’s just no balance. The difference between, say, the Didion documentary Instagram account and this one can be likened to the difference between a fashion show where there’s a live band and streamers that fall from the sky and models with megaphones shouting the show’s hashtag, and a quiet, well-edited show in a discreet corner of Paris where there’s no cell phone reception and it’s actually about the clothes. I’m getting frustrated with how stupid we’re becoming. We don’t even really know it. I think that’s what this really boils down to.
